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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>design meeting 2019-11-12 · t-compiler · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/index.html">t-compiler</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html">design meeting 2019-11-12</a></h3>

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<a name="180555967"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180555967" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180555967">(Nov 12 2019 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> -- on this coming Friday, we will be doing a "Working Group Review" for our design meeting. In the lead-up to that, I have prepared a <a href="https://forms.gle/PmZVgsAWZckceT3Y6" target="_blank" title="https://forms.gle/PmZVgsAWZckceT3Y6">short survey</a> to collect thoughts. Anybody is welcome to fill it out. As the form states, I intend to "postprocess" the data a bit to extract themes and to help shape our discussion</p>



<a name="180563017"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180563017" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180563017">(Nov 12 2019 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> Do you want this for <em>all</em> working groups or just those "under" compiler?</p>



<a name="180567781"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180567781" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180567781">(Nov 12 2019 at 22:10)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> this is specific to those intersecting the compiler. I would include things like <a class="stream" data-stream-id="144729" href="/#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits">#wg-traits</a> and <a class="stream" data-stream-id="187312" href="/#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations">#wg-async-foundations</a> whose precise "parent" team is a bit .. more complicated. :)</p>



<a name="180567793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180567793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180567793">(Nov 12 2019 at 22:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>makes sense.</p>



<a name="180568111"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180568111" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180568111">(Nov 12 2019 at 22:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it would be in scope to talk about triage/design meetings a bit as well -- i.e., if there are goals that one might expect from working groups (like how to manage design) that are not well served in current processes</p>



<a name="180744860"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180744860" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180744860">(Nov 14 2019 at 16:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I forgot to make an announcement in today's meeting, so this is a reminder:</p>
<p><span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> -- compiler wg retrospective meeting is tomorrow in <strong>this topic</strong>. If you haven't already, please take some time to fill out the <a href="https://forms.gle/PmZVgsAWZckceT3Y6" target="_blank" title="https://forms.gle/PmZVgsAWZckceT3Y6">short survey</a> we prepared</p>



<a name="180745279"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180745279" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180745279">(Nov 14 2019 at 16:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me plans to fill out survey tomorrow morning</p>



<a name="180838756"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180838756" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180838756">(Nov 15 2019 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hello <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> -- meeting starts in about 10 minutes. I'm going to go collate the survey feedback now (previous call ran over, so running a few minutes behind)</p>



<a name="180839396"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180839396" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180839396">(Nov 15 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm collecting notes in <a href="https://hackmd.io/kos3hvTsTGyaJ9sDT3FYkA?edit" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/kos3hvTsTGyaJ9sDT3FYkA?edit">this hackmd document</a> if you want to folow along</p>



<a name="180839743"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180839743" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180839743">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<h1>Announcements</h1>



<a name="180839752"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180839752" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180839752">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>I'm about half-way through the responses :)</li>
</ul>



<a name="180839777"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180839777" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180839777">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm in the process of drafting a blog post about testcase-reduction</p>



<a name="180839778"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180839778" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180839778">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think how I'd like to structure the meeting is to have people leave some marks in the hackmd with topics they'd like to focus on or spend time discussing in more depth</p>



<a name="180839801"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180839801" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180839801">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh cc <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> meeting starting now-ish (announcements!)</p>



<a name="180839803"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180839803" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180839803">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>If you are interested in seeing a draft (of aforementioned blog post) and giving early feedback, PM me</p>



<a name="180839963"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180839963" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180839963">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>At rustfest we've had a mir-opt "room" where ppl interested in compiler hacking flocked to and it was a total success</p>



<a name="180839972"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180839972" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180839972">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>ppl have asked for this to be a regular thing at rustfests</p>



<a name="180840064"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840064" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840064">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>for people leaving marks in the hackmd, I recommend the  <span aria-label="speech bubble" class="emoji emoji-1f5e8" role="img" title="speech bubble">:speech_bubble:</span> (at least when responding to questions/ideas)</p>



<a name="180840107"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840107" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840107">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>At rustfest we've had a mir-opt "room" where ppl interested in compiler hacking flocked to and it was a total success</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah it was great, I wondered if you were able to get them into Zulip or something like that and how things are going to continue</p>



<a name="180840127"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840127" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840127">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>but yeah, that discussion is not for this meeting, I guess :)</p>



<a name="180840328"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840328" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840328">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119031">@Esteban Küber</span> you should have a a diagnostics "room" ^^</p>



<a name="180840499"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840499" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840499">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, just one left to go</p>



<a name="180840500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840500">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I hope people are reading :)</p>



<a name="180840511"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840511" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840511">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<h1>Main topics</h1>



<a name="180840523"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840523" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840523">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>feel free to start tossing in ideas for bigger discussion themes and topics</p>



<a name="180840538"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840538" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840538">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I saw a lot was "improving the check-in process"</p>



<a name="180840667"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840667" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840667">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>which I assume means, in part, stop skipping the check-in's due to running out of time. :)</p>



<a name="180840701"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840701" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840701">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>another, related theme was improving the "clerical work" in keeping web pages up to date, they get neglected, which in turn means people can't see (e.g.) up to date info on  status</p>



<a name="180840723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840723">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>another: clarifying the different kinds of working groups, the concept feels muddled</p>



<a name="180840749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840749">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>the wind-down process came up a few times</p>



<a name="180840762"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840762" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840762">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm also curious how people feel about the wall-of-text approach that some of the WG-checkin's take</p>



<a name="180840779"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840779" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840779">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I propose we do this:</p>



<a name="180840835"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840835" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840835">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>check-ins, how to improve, as well as perhaps keeping things up to date (20 min)</li>
<li>wind down  (20 min)</li>
</ul>



<a name="180840852"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840852" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840852">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>times being slightly flexible :)</p>



<a name="180840876"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840876" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840876">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I'm also curious how people feel about the wall-of-text approach that some of the WG-checkin's take</p>
</blockquote>
<p>well, I actually think that the checkin may be better if handed beforehand to the person that is running the meeting</p>



<a name="180840904"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840904" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840904">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<h1>Check-ins and how to improve them (already started a bit :)</h1>



<a name="180840909"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840909" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840909">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>(anyone see any topic that they think <em>must</em> be incorporated into the above agenda that niko proposed?)</p>



<a name="180840926"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840926" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840926">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>(sorry, not trying to railroad, just seeing that we're running slightly behind)</p>



<a name="180840930"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840930" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840930">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>((I guess they can PM it to niko.))</p>



<a name="180840933"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840933" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840933">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah lets keep going</p>



<a name="180840947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840947">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>there was definitely a general sentiment that the check-ins are good but could be better</p>



<a name="180840956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180840956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180840956">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agre with this</p>



<a name="180841005"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841005" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841005">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've definitely seen the check-ins result in both interest <em>and</em> spotting problems and other things</p>



<a name="180841026"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841026" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841026">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>However I also think it's quite hard to answer, at any given time, "what has been happening lately in this WG"</p>



<a name="180841039"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841039" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841039">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Originally we had talked about having the check-ins be pushed to the repo</p>



<a name="180841054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841054">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>so that you could go to a WG and see them (e.g., they would be added ahead of time to a NOTES.md file)</p>



<a name="180841063"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841063" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841063">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>but then it doesn't happen, right?</p>



<a name="180841066"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841066" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841066">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>this .. just doesn't happen</p>



<a name="180841081"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841081" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841081">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e. we need to <del>maximize light-weightness</del> minimize weight</p>



<a name="180841084"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841084" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841084">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, it's at least not been happening thus far</p>



<a name="180841085"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841085" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841085">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've proposed something about checkins which is ... I guess it could be great to hear more often about wgs maybe every 2 weeks with a pre-cooked text handed to moderators of the meeting</p>



<a name="180841089"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841089" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841089">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure if that doable for leads of wgs</p>



<a name="180841119"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841119" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841119">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the other concern is that the check-ins could be more visible, though the posting of triage meeting minutes to Inside Rust is helping imo</p>



<a name="180841133"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841133" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841133">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>but could even be just well nothing important happened during this 2 weeks, which is ok</p>



<a name="180841222"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841222" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841222">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>One thing about breaking a check-in into multiple lines of text during a meetng</p>



<a name="180841230"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841230" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841230">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>Another common theme was that there just isn't enough time in the triage meting</p>



<a name="180841236"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841236" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841236">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>is that it gives readers the chance to interrupt</p>



<a name="180841259"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841259" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841259">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>which depending on POV can be good or bad thing</p>



<a name="180841277"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841277" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841277">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think my take is that the wall of text is kind of good, but it does tend to limit feedback a bit.</p>



<a name="180841298"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841298" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841298">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not convinced that the current setup of pinging people last minute is actually keeping things lighterweight</p>



<a name="180841312"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841312" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841312">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>at the very least, individual lines of zulip comments allow people to target their emoji reactions!</p>



<a name="180841360"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841360" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841360">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>But I guess I don't have a ton of concrete alternatives :)</p>



<a name="180841363"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841363" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841363">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, just in case what I was saying I think I'd like to see wgs state statuses more often if people think that that's possible</p>



<a name="180841370"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841370" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841370">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>regardless on how that's done</p>



<a name="180841432"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841432" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841432">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>One other thing that was brought up was trying to ensure more uniform procss across WGs</p>



<a name="180841456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841456">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Personally I feel that the check-ins are working OK on meetings overall and "don't fix what ain't broken" sorta</p>



<a name="180841457"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841457" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841457">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wonder if there would be a way to have a process that tends to produce summaries as more of a side-effect? Not sure what that means</p>



<a name="180841495"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841495" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841495">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>case in point, I am under the impression that lang-team WGs function very differently than compiler-team WGs</p>



<a name="180841504"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841504" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841504">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I sort of agree with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126931">@centril</span> -- maybe the idea is more that we should keep an eye for ways to improve, more than anything</p>



<a name="180841512"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841512" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841512">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe each zulip stream for a WG could have a dedicated topic</p>



<a name="180841524"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841524" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841524">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>as the WG makes interesting decisions/progress</p>



<a name="180841528"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841528" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841528">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>they post a comment in that topic</p>



<a name="180841530"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841530" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841530">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>ooh, interesting</p>



<a name="180841537"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841537" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841537">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>then the summary is just derived from the log there?</p>



<a name="180841541"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841541" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841541">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>indeed</p>



<a name="180841549"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841549" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841549">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>could be easily missed tho?</p>



<a name="180841571"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841571" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841571">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>requires <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> to remember ^^</p>



<a name="180841607"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841607" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841607">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>not if it's part of the check-in process</p>



<a name="180841609"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841609" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841609">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do think something like that -- maybe eventually with some kind of bot that scrapes and collates the information? -- could be really nice</p>



<a name="180841611"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841611" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841611">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I do have problems with that</p>



<a name="180841617"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841617" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841617">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>"go over the list of topics"</p>



<a name="180841647"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841647" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841647">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think emoji reactions in that stream could help too</p>



<a name="180841648"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841648" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841648">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>my concern is people will forget to post, but I think that posting to a zulip topic is definitely an improvement on "open a PR against GH", which is kind of a pain</p>



<a name="180841679"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841679" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841679">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e. even if there's a <em>huge</em> number of items, the WG participants (or 3rd party observers, for that matter) can use <span aria-label="point of information" class="emoji emoji-261d" role="img" title="point of information">:point_of_information:</span> to indicate the really important ones</p>



<a name="180841735"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841735" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841735">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> but this info is then collected to GH somehow later right?</p>



<a name="180841736"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841736" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841736">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>can't we even automate a ping to leaders on Zulip to ask them to post things?</p>



<a name="180841806"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841806" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841806">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126931">@centril</span> right now, it's not, except in the form of blog posts. I would like for it to be.</p>



<a name="180841819"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841819">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>if nothing else, we'll have zulip-archive.rlo</p>



<a name="180841859"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841859" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841859">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think my take is-- check-ins are good, but the hardest problem in terms of getting a feeling for what WG is "doing" is more establishing a roadmap and steps</p>



<a name="180841886"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841886" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841886">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> but we have minutes from check-ins at meetings, no?</p>



<a name="180841893"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841893" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841893">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>which ties in with another theme, one I didn't pull out, of leadership and how we can help with that</p>



<a name="180841918"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841918" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841918">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, that's true. what we don't have is way to find -- for a given WG -- the current updates, but if we had the zulip streams, we would</p>



<a name="180841919"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841919" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841919">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also posed a question about whether each WG should define some specific metrics by which they measure their progress.</p>



<a name="180841925"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841925" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841925">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it would be always up to date</p>



<a name="180841928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841928">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>by its very nature</p>



<a name="180841942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841942">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I think my take is-- check-ins are good, but the hardest problem in terms of getting a feeling for what WG is "doing" is more establishing a roadmap and steps</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, the WGs I'm on don't have a written down roadmap...</p>



<a name="180841980"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841980" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841980">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>metrics may or may not be useful in helping drive summaries of progress.</p>



<a name="180841987"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841987" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841987">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>which ties in with another theme, one I didn't pull out, of leadership and how we can help with that</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(I'd like to propose we semi switch to this, even though it's altering my proposed schedule)</p>



<a name="180841993"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841993" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841993">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular, I'm wondering --</p>



<a name="180841996"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180841996" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180841996">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I personally have found super useful</p>



<a name="180842002"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842002" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842002">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>is having somebody sit down and help me</p>



<a name="180842006"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842006" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842006">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>to form a roadmap and ideas</p>



<a name="180842029"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842029" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842029">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would if some of us (myself, felix, maybe others) could try to actively spend time doing that with working groups?</p>



<a name="180842041"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842041" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842041">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>or if it's worth a try?</p>



<a name="180842048"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842048" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842048">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I think my take is-- check-ins are good, but the hardest problem in terms of getting a feeling for what WG is "doing" is more establishing a roadmap and steps</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think this is a great idea, on learning we would have a meeting to define a roadmap next week I think</p>



<a name="180842053"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842053" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842053">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>that sounds great</p>



<a name="180842073"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842073" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842073">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that could fit with what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116266">@Santiago Pastorino</span> was talking about</p>



<a name="180842075"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842075" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842075">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> I'd be a bit careful about not making the metrics feel like performance reviews at a company or some such (because that makes OSS less fun, and more alienating)</p>



<a name="180842078"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842078" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842078">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah it seems like helping WG's make roadmaps would be time well spent.</p>



<a name="180842094"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842094" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842094">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., maybe there is some way to have a periodic "roadmap check-in" meeting with leads of the WG</p>



<a name="180842121"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842121" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842121">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:26)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I would if some of us (myself, felix, maybe others) could try to actively spend time doing that with working groups?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I can definitely help with this</p>



<a name="180842200"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842200" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842200">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok so I think it would work like this</p>



<a name="180842219"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842219" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842219">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>we try to go through each WG and make sure they have a roadmpa, scheduling meetings over the next time to work on that as needed</p>



<a name="180842226"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842226" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842226">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>this helps the check-ins be phrased in terms of that</p>



<a name="180842247"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842247" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842247">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>we can then repeat as needed, kind of monitoring progress?</p>



<a name="180842259"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842259" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842259">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean it's nothing too formal, more just the idea that we'll try to actively do this</p>



<a name="180842267"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842267" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842267">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:27)</a>:</h4>
<p><span aria-label="+1" class="emoji emoji-1f44d" role="img" title="+1">:+1:</span></p>



<a name="180842290"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842290" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842290">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe something for the meta wg to try and do -- a kind of "WG triage")</p>



<a name="180842312"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842312" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842312">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I've been pondering the idea that the meta wg should shift gears from "set up system" to "maintain and help monitor system")</p>



<a name="180842320"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842320" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842320">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>WG triage collides with the Triage WG :P</p>



<a name="180842386"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842386" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842386">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's Triage WG?</p>



<a name="180842396"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842396" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842396">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me looks around</p>



<a name="180842401"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842401" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842401">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>Under t-release</p>



<a name="180842402"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842402" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842402">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>part of release team I think</p>



<a name="180842441"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842441" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842441">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, we're 20 minutes in, so far I've got down some notes in the hackmd of:</p>



<a name="180842456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842456">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>
<p>maybe a zulip stream that people can post updates to<br>
    * perhaps with bot support to scrape and collate<br>
    * this would land in github in the form of meeting minutes<br>
    * but it would also make it easy to catch up on the status </p>
</li>
<li>
<p>make a point to help WGs develop roadmaps<br>
    * helps to frame check-ins </p>
</li>
<li>
<p>metrics?<br>
    * but what? and let's not try to make this too much like a company</p>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="180842497"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842497" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842497">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I really like the "zulip topic" idea btw)</p>



<a name="180842518"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842518" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842518">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>that summary sounds right.</p>



<a name="180842569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842569">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>so you wanted to move on to discussing WG leads?</p>



<a name="180842602"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842602" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842602">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I did, though I think the roadmap idea is solidly helpful</p>



<a name="180842613"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842613" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842613">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>or should we discuss winddown first</p>



<a name="180842627"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842627" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842627">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was going to suggest we touch on wind-down</p>



<a name="180842654"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842654" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842654">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems clear we have some WGs that need to wind down</p>



<a name="180842674"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842674" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842674">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>NLL and pipelining come to mind</p>



<a name="180842683"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842683" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842683">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>we don't really have a procedure for this</p>



<a name="180842708"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842708" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842708">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>but .. I think the main two questions that arose are:</p>



<a name="180842989"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180842989" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180842989">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>should we try to think a bit about long-term maintenance there ? </li>
<li>is the work of wind-down being fairly distributed and well tracked?</li>
</ul>



<a name="180843001"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843001" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843001">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>at the very least, we need to ensure that open bugs tagged with WG-nll still keep relevant metadata, e.g. they need to be tagged with A-borrow-checker (I think)</p>



<a name="180843011"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843011" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843011">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span>, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126931">@centril</span> and <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116118">@Matthew Jasper</span> have been doing the lion's share around NLL ( <span aria-label="heart eyes" class="emoji emoji-1f60d" role="img" title="heart eyes">:heart_eyes:</span> )</p>



<a name="180843068"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843068" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843068">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>(It would be unfair of me to take much credit for NLL; I only swept in at the last minute ^^)</p>



<a name="180843080"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843080" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843080">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe another aspect is what to do about working groups that are de facto inactive -- or just moving very slowly -- is that a problem?</p>



<a name="180843097"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843097" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843097">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me also feels like I've done nothing</p>



<a name="180843149"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843149">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>heh, I disagree with both of y'all :)</p>



<a name="180843178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843178">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's clear that NLL isn't well tracked atm</p>



<a name="180843182"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843182" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843182">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree</p>



<a name="180843189"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843189" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843189">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's in a "cleanup" phase sorta</p>



<a name="180843194"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843194" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843194">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure how big a problem I think it is</p>



<a name="180843199"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843199" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843199">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>we have migration mode and regionck</p>



<a name="180843220"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843220" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843220">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it seems like at least something we could improve, though I'm not sure how</p>



<a name="180843257"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843257" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843257">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>wg-grammar is one that moves very slowly, but still moves</p>



<a name="180843264"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843264" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843264">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>at the very least, we need to ensure that open bugs tagged with WG-nll still keep relevant metadata, e.g. they need to be tagged with A-borrow-checker (I think)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Oh,  i guess we don't even have a WG-nll label on github (at least not anymore)?</p>



<a name="180843279"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843279" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843279">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do think that wind down is roadmap completion, mostly</p>



<a name="180843287"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843287" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843287">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>probably not a great problem; the work is being done, mostly by <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> and <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116118">@Matthew Jasper</span> last few weeks</p>



<a name="180843288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843288">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>regionck is a good point, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126931">@centril</span>, I think we should definitely formally discuss our plan around where that work moves to</p>



<a name="180843289"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843289" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843289">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I have thoughts, but this meeting doesn't seem the place to go into them)</p>



<a name="180843322"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843322" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843322">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>So if we don't have a roadmap I don't think we can discuss winddown effectively</p>



<a name="180843348"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843348" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843348">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>but at least we should try to have a "winddown meeting" where we try to uncover all that stuff and decide it</p>



<a name="180843377"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843377" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843377">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>so maybe the answer is</p>



<a name="180843390"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843390" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843390">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>Seems sensible; and collect a list of "remaining tasks"</p>



<a name="180843391"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843391" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843391">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>the roadmap check-in meetings we discussed earlier, but targeting wind-down?</p>



<a name="180843416"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843416" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qmx <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843416">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>kinda like a retrospective meeting?</p>



<a name="180843449"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843449" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843449">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, I'd figure out a roadmap - perhaps even looking back at what was done for existing wgs - and then if everything is done then you're done</p>



<a name="180843476"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843476" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843476">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>kind of like a retrospective, except I think the goal isn't to look at "how did it go and what could we improve"</p>



<a name="180843480"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843480" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843480">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>but more like "what did we get done, what's left, and -- if it matters -- who will do it"</p>



<a name="180843508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843508">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>A separate survey or w/e to figure out what could've gone better etc seems good, but I think is orthogonal to an extent</p>



<a name="180843597"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843597" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843597">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, I'm happy with this around NLL. I don't think that the pipelining WG has as much follow-up work, but we should do the process anyway, we might surprise ourselves.</p>



<a name="180843598"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843598" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843598">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would think that in the case of NLL, the roadmap is dictated, at least in part, by the NLL tracking issue <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/43234" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/43234">#43234</a></p>



<a name="180843620"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843620" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843620">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I imagine most WG's don't have this, of course; just wanted to remind people that this does exist...)</p>



<a name="180843664"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843664" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843664">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's a bit outdated; <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/57895#issuecomment-535271853" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/57895#issuecomment-535271853">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/57895#issuecomment-535271853</a> is more up to date I think</p>



<a name="180843668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843668">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>(time-check: 40 minutes in)</p>



<a name="180843691"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843691" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843691">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>what do people think about "less active" wgs?</p>



<a name="180843771"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843771" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843771">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>(But in any case, I think I agree that the details of NLL's wind-down in particular can be handed in a dedicated roadmap meeting for WG-nll)</p>



<a name="180843775"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843775" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843775">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>also, another common theme we could discuss: should we clarify the distinctions of e.g. "long-term working groups" vs "goal-oriented working groups"?</p>



<a name="180843788"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843788" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843788">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm trying to push for the term "project group" for the latter</p>



<a name="180843822"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843822" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843822">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think they're a problem, we should let things move at their own pace; though there should be a clear sense of goals at any point</p>



<a name="180843824"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843824" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843824">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think an example of longer-term activities might be:</p>



<a name="180843830"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843830" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843830">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p><a class="stream" data-stream-id="187780" href="/#narrow/stream/187780-t-compiler.2Fwg-llvm">#t-compiler/wg-llvm</a></p>



<a name="180843854"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843854" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843854">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p><a class="stream" data-stream-id="185694" href="/#narrow/stream/185694-t-compiler.2Fwg-meta">#t-compiler/wg-meta</a> -- if we are using it for a kind of "keep the system up and going" sort of things</p>



<a name="180843855"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843855" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843855">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Is the naming of the terms a problem? I haven't been confused about the overloading of WG as a term personally</p>



<a name="180843861"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843861" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843861">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>The distinction is probably clear in some situations, but e.g. for const eval and mir-opt it seems like they are open end, but kindof also have a major goal?</p>



<a name="180843883"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843883" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843883">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, there are some that straddle the line -- I think #t-compiler/wg-traits is another example</p>



<a name="180843885"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843885" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843885">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>however</p>



<a name="180843904"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843904" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843904">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that is partly the work that a roadmap formation would help with</p>



<a name="180843907"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843907" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843907">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>but still</p>



<a name="180843911"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843911" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843911">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>wg-traits is like the most open-ended :D</p>



<a name="180843921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843921">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>there seems to be a kind of "people who like to hack on this part of the code" concept</p>



<a name="180843925"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843925" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843925">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>that might be useful</p>



<a name="180843986"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180843986" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180843986">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Is the naming of the terms a problem? I haven't been confused about the overloading of WG as a term personally</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I have observed confusion, particularly with domain working groups</p>



<a name="180844007"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844007" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844007">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>imo it is domain WGs that should be renamed</p>



<a name="180844017"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844017" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844017">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>for example, what process is used to create a working group? domain working groups have an application procss, but ..? etc</p>



<a name="180844021"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844021" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844021">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's also wg-compiler-performance, which is a useful GH team for pinging people, but maybe that should just not be called a working group</p>



<a name="180844024"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844024" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844024">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>possibly</p>



<a name="180844031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844031">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>there's also wg-compiler-performance, which is a useful GH team for pinging people, but maybe that should just not be called a working group</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, so we have ICE-breakers for this</p>



<a name="180844039"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844039" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844039">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we should rename that, not sure, but that's what it is designed to do</p>



<a name="180844057"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844057" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844057">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>(They are far fewer and don't really operate like WGs I'd say; more like "domain interest group")</p>



<a name="180844060"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844060" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844060">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>(or just use the mechanism with some other terms sometimes)</p>



<a name="180844110"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844110" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844110">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK so it seems like we have the following sorts of things:</p>
<ul>
<li>groups doing manual, recurring tasks and upkeep</li>
<li>groups around an area of the code</li>
<li>project groups with a pretty clear goal</li>
<li>groups to ping people ("ICE-breakers")</li>
</ul>



<a name="180844161"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844161" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844161">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p><del>I'm not sure how much difference there is between the first two</del></p>



<a name="180844193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844193">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>well some goal could touch many parts of the compiler, e.g. some ergonomics feature</p>



<a name="180844194"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844194" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844194">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I edited the list after the fact :)</p>



<a name="180844195"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844195" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844195">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>The first never goes away?</p>



<a name="180844204"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844204" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844204">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, that's why I added it</p>



<a name="180844226"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844226" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844226">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>"project groups" could just be "projects" done by the corresponding working group?</p>



<a name="180844229"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844229" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844229">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's probably a lot of overlap in the 4 bullets</p>



<a name="180844235"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844235" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844235">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the middle two feel .. like they are different but very similar. Both could maybe benefit from some kind of roadmap, unless the code is "perfect" and just needs bug fixing :)</p>



<a name="180844257"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844257" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844257">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>"project groups" could just be "projects" done by the corresponding working group?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>indeed, there is some kind of relationship like this I think</p>



<a name="180844258"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844258" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844258">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e. we would not expect a roadmap, more a road circle for wg-llvm and the like</p>



<a name="180844269"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844269" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844269">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124287">@mw</span> hit on the relationship that might make the most sense</p>



<a name="180844315"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844315" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844315">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, there might be a group around some area of the code, and they might have active projects</p>



<a name="180844328"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844328" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844328">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>project groups with a pretty clear goal<br>
groups around an area of the code</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is true of NLL for example; probably not so much the other 2</p>



<a name="180844358"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844358" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844358">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>(or they might be kind of in between that and just hanging out, talking about obscure combinations of LLVM passes and wishing LLVM would add <code>poison</code> already) (Update: I'm worried this will seem insulting :P just trying to make bad jokes ;)</p>



<a name="180844359"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844359" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844359">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>groups to ping people ("ICE-breakers")</p>
</blockquote>
<p>this would be e.g. a group for organizing rollups</p>



<a name="180844437"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844437" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844437">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, 50 minutes in :)</p>



<a name="180844455"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844455" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844455">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>wg-traits is probably a WG that would have many sub-projects with clear goals</p>



<a name="180844463"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844463" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844463">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>feel free to keep chatting :) but I'm gonna skim the hackmd to see if there are final themes worth hitting in. (Not sure if we reached a conclusion on this topic, though)</p>



<a name="180844465"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844465" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844465">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then the WG has a "we are focusing on this right now"</p>



<a name="180844469"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844469" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844469">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>OK, 50 minutes in :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>leadership ?</p>



<a name="180844532"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844532" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844532">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, ok, so we talked about helping mentor leaders around roadmap formation</p>



<a name="180844540"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844540" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844540">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>there is also the matter of it being hard to find people with enough time</p>



<a name="180844547"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844547" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844547">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think those two are intertwined</p>



<a name="180844561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844561">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, having help and support will help people fel encouraged, make more time</p>



<a name="180844572"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844572" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844572">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I also would like to hear from folks like <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116113">@lqd</span>, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125250">@Wesley Wiser</span>, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124288">@oli</span> who are kind of doing leadership "on the side" of other jobs</p>



<a name="180844586"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844586" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844586">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>about what frustrates them the most and what could help</p>



<a name="180844599"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844599" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844599">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>(not meant to be an exclusive list, anybody should feel free to pitch in :)</p>



<a name="180844635"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844635" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844635">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me at $DAYJOB now and 174 messages behind in this Zulip stream</p>



<a name="180844707"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844707" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844707">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125250">@Wesley Wiser</span> only the last couple matter for the question at hand.</p>



<a name="180844753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844753">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>lol sorry <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125250">@Wesley Wiser</span> :)</p>



<a name="180844761"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844761" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844761">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess that is part of the answer right there ;)</p>



<a name="180844793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844793">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>some of the topics about helping roadmaps, check-ins and increasing participation already seem worthwhile to me</p>



<a name="180844813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844813">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel fairly similar fwiw. Officially I provisionally lead a wg-llvm, but in practice I did nil leader-like things for that wg.</p>



<a name="180844817"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844817" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844817">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I see various +1s to</p>



<a name="180844824"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844824" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844824">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>is "multiple leads"</p>



<a name="180844875"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844875" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844875">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>(with which I strongly agree)</p>



<a name="180844893"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844893" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844893">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>not sure how to make that happen, but maybe it's something to keep an eye out for if nothing else</p>



<a name="180844918"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844918" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844918">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>For me the current scheme works quite well. Though we could probably be more effective if we had some more organization.</p>



<a name="180844962"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844962" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844962">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>"other people's time" always helps but is the hardest to make happen</p>



<a name="180844997"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844997" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844997">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Add another hour to the day.</p>



<a name="180844998"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180844998" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180844998">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>having multiple leads is a total game changer for me</p>



<a name="180845000"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845000" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845000">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>But since everyone has other things to worry about, noone is moving very fast so I think it kind of fits</p>



<a name="180845005"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845005" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845005">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>(ps, skimming the hackmd, it seems we hit on a lot of the topics, one of the things we didn't is labeling -- kind of a germane topic, but maybe we can discuss in a separate topic <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> -- I do think we could do more to "normalize" our labeling schemes between groups, and I'd like to share the experiences of <a class="stream" data-stream-id="187312" href="/#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations">#wg-async-foundations</a> here, which I think is working reasonably well)</p>



<a name="180845019"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845019" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845019">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>having multiple leads is a total game changer for me</p>
</blockquote>
<p>confirm</p>



<a name="180845062"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845062" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845062">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess we should make an active goal that every WG has two leads</p>



<a name="180845086"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845086" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845086">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>(ps, skimming the hackmd, it seems we hit on a lot of the topics, one of the things we didn't is labeling -- kind of a germane topic, but maybe we can discuss in a separate topic <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> -- I do think we could do more to "normalize" our labeling schemes between groups, and I'd like to share the experiences of <a class="stream" data-stream-id="187312" href="/#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations">#wg-async-foundations</a> here, which I think is working reasonably well)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>WG-NLL  being able to make their own set of labels I thought was very useful too</p>



<a name="180845100"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845100" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845100">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we should try to allow for that more frequently?</p>



<a name="180845121"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845121" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845121">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>(yes, I think the scheme would be more of a template than a set of specific labels)</p>



<a name="180845153"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845153" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845153">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I just meant allowed+encouraging WG's to devise labels</p>



<a name="180845163"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845163" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845163">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>because AFAIK its the exception, not the rule, currently</p>



<a name="180845165"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845165" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845165">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>no?</p>



<a name="180845195"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845195" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845195">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh but then I guess that might run counter to normalized labels. :)</p>



<a name="180845201"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845201" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845201">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>the specific thing that we've been doing in async-await is having a "triaged" label, so each meeting we skim the A-Async-await to look for things that lack a Triaged label and decide what to do about them</p>



<a name="180845256"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845256" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845256">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think having a "Triaged" label (and then other labels as desired) is a good template</p>



<a name="180845276"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845276" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845276">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>As in, a way for a WG to mark that <em>they</em> triaged the bug</p>



<a name="180845281"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845281" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845281">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="180845305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845305">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>and encourage them to setup their own labeling schemes beyond that, as well</p>



<a name="180845312"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845312" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845312">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>we also might want a MyWG-nominated</p>



<a name="180845324"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845324" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845324">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes plausibly</p>



<a name="180845345"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845345" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845345">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>at least, I dislike how right now I have to dissect I-nominated when its tagged with multiple teams+WGs</p>



<a name="180845357"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845357" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845357">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I guess we should make an active goal that every WG has two leads</p>
</blockquote>
<p>is there more we can do here? I'm not sure exactly what. I guess that for WGs that lack multiple leads, we could try to actively advertise or something</p>



<a name="180845370"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845370" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845370">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the answer is just that we should look for wgs that lack multiple leads and talk about how we can fix that :)</p>



<a name="180845374"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845374" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845374">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>there was a PM from someone recently to me</p>



<a name="180845378"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845378" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845378">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>asking about forming a WG</p>



<a name="180845427"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845427" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845427">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah interesting</p>



<a name="180845432"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845432" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845432">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>and they explicitly said that they themselves didn't feel comfortable being lead</p>



<a name="180845434"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845434" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845434">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>we didn't talk at all about WG <em>creation</em></p>



<a name="180845445"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845445" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845445">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>we don't really have time to dig into it</p>



<a name="180845448"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845448" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845448">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh right, that's explicitly <em>undocumented</em></p>



<a name="180845460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845460">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>(as in, we have documentation saying we lack protocol for creation)</p>



<a name="180845463"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845463" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845463">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think there are definitely "ongoing activities" that would be good to capture in a WG</p>



<a name="180845480"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845480" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845480">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe good for follow-up?</p>



<a name="180845506"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845506" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845506">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>as in, a topic for a later steering meeting?</p>



<a name="180845537"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845537" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845537">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="180845539"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845539" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845539">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or maybe just in a dedicated zulip topic?</p>



<a name="180845550"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845550" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845550">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe start there</p>



<a name="180845559"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845559" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845559">(Nov 15 2019 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>we're at 59 minutes, in any case, and I think this was pretty fruitful</p>



<a name="180845621"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180845621" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180845621">(Nov 15 2019 at 16:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>So a big <span aria-label="thank you" class="emoji emoji-1f64f" role="img" title="thank you">:thank_you:</span> and much <span aria-label="heart" class="emoji emoji-2764" role="img" title="heart">:heart:</span> <span aria-label="heart" class="emoji emoji-2764" role="img" title="heart">:heart:</span> to all who participated</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180846156" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180846156">(Nov 15 2019 at 16:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sorry, had some stuff come up I needed to deal with. Based on the other replies here, I think I'm missing some context for the question but one of the challenging things for me is effectively being in the wrong timezone. Even though I'm EST, I'm working during the day so in the evenings, most everyone else is offline which can make even simple conversations take a lot longer.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-11-12/near/180846230" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-11-12.html#180846230">(Nov 15 2019 at 16:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I personally have started getting up earlier to do Rust stuff so that I'm active in the middle of the day for Europe and that has made a huge difference in my personal productivity and IMO also the teams I contribute to.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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